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Post by EvilDunkin on Oct 26, 2005 21:59:20 GMT -5
Who was the worst. explain ur choice
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Karumichan
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Post by Karumichan on Oct 27, 2005 23:19:49 GMT -5
Well, they're all pretty bad. But I say Stalin, Hitler is probably just as bad but wasn't...I don't know how to explain it, lol. Hitler had a plan with his hollocuast? ^^; Stalin created the 5 year plan which resulted in the exucution of millions because of his policies. He also led the Great Purge which killed thousands.
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Post by EvilDunkin on Oct 30, 2005 14:05:07 GMT -5
true true
man i 4got to add someone.....the U.S. rats!!!
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Post by Shinta_Himura on Mar 30, 2006 19:08:05 GMT -5
I say that Hitler was even worst then Stalin. It's true that Stalin did repressed and killed a lot of people in the gulags and prizons, but I don't think that Stalin ever used a racial hatred as an issue to kill people. There were no ethniq groups who were beeing forced to live in Ghetos. Although he did ordered mass relocation of some ethniq groups, but I can't recall any instances when it would be because of racism and such. In overal, Stalin did a lot of good things for Russia as well. For example, Russia became fuly industrialized nation only during the rule of Stalin there. I'm not justifiying Stalin's policies, I just think that Hitler was the worst spawn of evil that world had seen so far.
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Karumichan
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Post by Karumichan on Mar 30, 2006 19:14:43 GMT -5
Thats true too. I guess it's hard to say one or the other because they were all bad in there own way. But even Hitler still had followers, even today, so not everyone thinks so. I do wonder what it would've been like without them though. Maybe it was a good thing they existed, or maybe life would've turned out better woithout them. Who knows.
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chibipyroduo
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Post by chibipyroduo on Mar 31, 2006 15:31:04 GMT -5
Can I add a point in saying that Hitler wasn't a communist. Hitler was only a member/leader of the NAZI party. I do agree that Hitler was probally worse than Stalin, in the fact that he killed millions upon millions for his own belief that one race is suprior over another. Stalin was bad, but let's remember he was our ally during WWII, so he wasn't painted in a bad light until he did the Berlin Wall and stuff. He did go insane at the end though, killing off his own family because he thought they were in a conspiracy against him. People.
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Post by Shinta_Himura on Mar 31, 2006 16:39:55 GMT -5
It's true that Hitler wasn't really a communist and really hated all communists, but let's remember that official name of his party was Social Democratic Party of Germany and at that time all of the parties with Social in it's name were considered to be Communists.
Also, It wasn't Stalin who build the Berlin Wall, it was Chruchev as Stalin died in March of 1953 at the age of 70 or something. He didn't really went insane, alsthough he was paranoid of conspiracy.
Finally, he didn't killed his own family or so to speak. According to some new investigations, Nadeghda Alilueva (his wife) commited suicide. His blood son was captured by Nazis during WWII and executed because he couldn't be exchanged (he was a private and Germans demanded him to be exchanged for a Field Marshall, so Russian military said that it's impossible to do such an exhchange because noone exchanging low ranks for the highest ranks in this kind of situation). His adopted son, I belive his name was Alecksander died of excess drinking as he was an Alchoholic.
Finaly, Stalin's daugher Svetlana is still alive today, so you can't exactly say that Stalin killed his own family.
The oficial theory of his death is a stroke as he was an old man, but some say that it was an assassination and that someone injected some drug to him during the night before March 18th of 1953. No one can say for sure.
Now Hitler was trully the one to be insane as before he had killed himself, he also killed his mistress along with dogs and families of his close officers who resided with him in that Bunker.
I think it is hard to say who was more sane then other, but it is obviouse that all of those things are the lessons to us today, which not many of us understand.
Look around the world today, there are still many dictators who are actually similar, yet nothing is done and the Sadest thing is that innocent people get accused of being tyrants. They were atacking Yugoslavia for trying to stop terrorism inside their borders and there were terrorism indead. Kosovo Albanians of that time weren't happy to have an autonomous status, they didn't like to live with Serbian people around them, so they got armed and started to kill Serbian people in their area and when Miloshovich tried to supress those activist groups in there, he got accused for that by other nations and was tried at the end. I'm not blaming Albanian people in general here, but you have to admit that they were attacking Serbs there.
Furthermore, after those militerised Albanians from Kosovo got their space from Yugoslav forces, they went on across the border into Albania and started to make havok there. At least that what I remember from news of that time.
I'm not against people wanting to be autonomus and free. I just can't understand why people go out and attack people of different etnicities then them there and calling to arms against a government before submiting their declaration of independence to their government.
I think things like those are illigal. They also have an illigal military formation of terrorists in Russia in Northern Caucasus, but no body even going there. Is that because no one wants to deal with Russia?
I think that instead of attacking wrong people, we have to look around and find the real tread as that tread will lead to our downfall sometimes in the future.
I rest my case for now....
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Karumichan
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Post by Karumichan on Mar 31, 2006 17:35:52 GMT -5
Wow, your full of info. ^_^ I have never studied Stalin myself, so I didn't know he did or didn't kill his family, but I guess he didn't. And yes, your right about the current tread. I think people just get power hungry. I think it's part of human nature thats stronger in some people, and they feel the need to go out and try to supress some other little country. And no, I don't think we want to mess with Russia, they have WoMD don't they? US tends to stay out of Russia with our history.
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chibipyroduo
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Post by chibipyroduo on Mar 31, 2006 19:06:36 GMT -5
wow I feel kind of stupid, thanks for setting me straight hinaru. I agree with everything Karumichan just said. There is always an age where men become evil and power hungry and decide to attack someone or something to statisfy their greed. Then they discover that they cannot stop their greed from growing because it's like an addictive drug, and the only cure is to conquer the known world at that time.
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Post by Shinta_Himura on Mar 31, 2006 20:04:46 GMT -5
No problem, I just told you what I knew, but there still a lot of stuff I don't know myself and I have to know about Stalin and other Russian leaders cause I come from that country originally and my liking of history made me read and listen stuff from Russian history and since my memory is realy good, I still remember it even if I hadn't lived there for 8 years already ^^;;;
I'm not sure about WoMD, but Russia sure have two great and scarry friends and those are powerful Russian army and Russian navy, lol Also take a look at what happened to everyone whoever tried to conquer Russia. Napoleon got frost bite from Russian winter and his behind burnt by the Russian army and ran away to Paris in 1812 and then Hitler got the same thing in 1945. When will they learn? Those two should have take out Britain first, if they wanted the big and huge Russia to themselves. Everyone knows that fighting on two fronts is your own demise, lol The only time Russia was ever conquered was around 12th or 13th century AD when Chengiz Han conquered teritories almost up to Bulgaria in the west and up to the China and Korea in the East, the northmost expansion of Chngiz became Siberia and he was the only concueror who repeated what Alexander the Great did before. The Russian Principalities fell under the tread from Mongols for another 300 years then and had to pay fee to the Mongols in order to avoid being terrorised by their hords. Only in the late 14th and early 15th century, Russia was able to free themselve from being dependant on Mongols' mercy by chasing most of them out of their lands.
I say that the moment we get rid of lust, greed, hunger for power and other aspects of human degradation, we would be able to say that we had achived true Utopia and all people would live together in perfect harmony without the drive to be better then somebody else or to get something that they don't have from somebody else or to kill someone for any reason.
The statement that history repeats itself is very much true, that I can say as historian. The lesson that people learned from the past experiences is another story.
So many people think that history is a boring subject, not worthy of studying, yet I will take a liberty to blame most of the troubles of people around the world on the lack of knowlege of history.
Tell me friends, when will we learn from our past mistakes? Who knows how long ago in history our mistakes are starting from? Perhaps we can trace similar people to Hitler and Sadam as far as Pyramids of Egypt go in history, and perhaps even earlier then this.
I agree that there were times when cruelty was an essential part of survival for one's government and it was innevitable to be cruel then. However, cruelty still continues to this, as we call it civilized age, yet it is not so much civilized in reality.
If you look closely at the nature of cruelty and some other flaws of human nature, we can trace them to the primitive instincts the earliest humans had. Could it be the curse of humanity to be like this? One may never know...
Oh my Holly Lord! I'm very much talkative today for some reason. Just let me go on and on on a topic and you will never hear the end of it. I think I should take it easy before I would loose all of my audience.
*looks around the lecture hall and notices that half of the class is asleep.*
Why does something like that always happening?
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Karumichan
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Post by Karumichan on Mar 31, 2006 21:36:04 GMT -5
I'm not asleep yet. =D
Indeed, Russia has quite a history. The country is just so huge anyways, imagine trying to keep it under control. I don't think we'll ever get it right. Millions of people can realize the errors of their ways, and realize things need to change, but then theres a 100milllion more who just keep rushing ahead without thoughts of reprecussions. It's like discrimination or racism. It's so deeply rooted, greed and lust and power, that it'll just always be there. And then theres people who try to fix others mistakes by just doing the same thing. Like the war. We get attacked, so we attack back, but it's not like we could just sit there either and ignore it for the peace, becasue they'd just attack more. Life is a catch 22. I guess it is a curse of humanity.
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Post by EvilDunkin on Apr 1, 2006 7:35:59 GMT -5
a wat? this is huh? wow this is such a long discussion lol
wow u guys like arguing about the russian dudes it seems
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Post by Shinta_Himura on Apr 1, 2006 16:38:53 GMT -5
Not entirly, no. We also argued where are the roots of lust, greed, power hunger and other iky feelings of people comming from. Turned out to be it dates back to the primitive instincts of earliest humans. Therefore we concluded thats humanity is under the curse.
By the way, you're late for the lecture again and I'm afraid I will have to fail you. Just what do you think I should do with you EvilDunkin-chan?
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Post by Karumichan on Apr 1, 2006 21:08:02 GMT -5
It's is remotely related to communisim, talking about Russian history. ^^;
And Evil, will need to write a 50 page essay on everything she learned to get an A. =D
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Post by Shinta_Himura on Apr 1, 2006 22:02:09 GMT -5
I'm not that cruel instructor six to ten should do it max the minimum lets make four to five. But I better not catch you plagerizing, so no usage of my lectures word to word, lol The due date? Let set it somewhere in the end of May and that concerened everyone in the lecture hall.
Next class we shall talk about Marx and Engels...
*packs his stuff and geting ready to leave, random paper plane flies above his head and hits a blackboard*
Let's pretend I didn't notice that! *walks out*
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